Category: Parent Talk
I'm not really sure where to begin on this one! This evening I watched a documentary that was about young carers. One of the families featured on it was a blind couple who had 6 children. These parents did not do a single thing for themselves.
The youngest childrens nappies were not changed until the older two girls got back from school. They did not cook a single meal for themselves. One of the oldest girls was so unhappy and stressed with what she had to do that she tried to kill herself, and the parents didn't even seam overly concerned with this, or the amount they were expecting them to do!
It is hard to put all of what happened into words here, but I am upset at the amount of work the children were expected to do for their parents. I am frustrated that the majority of sighted people who watched it will probably see this as normal behaviour for blind people, and I am amazed at the lack of effort or interest these two put into leading an indipendent life and giving their children the best they could.
We all have different standards, and different ideas of what indipendence is, but this was terrible! I am not a parent myself, but have changed nappies and fed a baby, I can cook for myself and would never use my children to the degree that these two did. And yes I am totally blind. It worries me that documentaries like this are going to give some people the wrong idea about the capabilities of a blind person. The story of what these children are going through needed to be told, but words fail me as to just how wrong the whole set up was.
I'm sure there are many blind couples on here who have children and manage very well. To a certain extent I think being blind makes you try even harder, just so any critasisms can't be leveled at the fact you cannot see.
My frustration is hard to put into words, and so I don't turn this in to a total incoherent rant I will leave it there, and just hope that if I ever have a baby I don't meet a social worker or medical professional who has been narrow minded enough to form an oppinion, as to my ability on such an extreme example of blind people not being able to cope.
That is indeed horrible, of course the most horrible thing being the children caring for themselves and the other children and the parents' neglect. I don't care whether the parents were blind or not and I hope as much as you do that this does not become a stereotype for the entire blind community. I was asked just the other day by the daughter of a personal assistant for those who are severely disabled how I make dinner. I told her I had some sight and made dinner just like everyone else, but with adaptations. Luckily, for a 10-year-old, she had her head on straight and understood that. You know, come to think of it, my brothers took care of me when I was little because my birthmother neglected us. I don't remember any time that they cared for me, but by what I've heard about it from my dad, I'm glad he was able to get primary custody of me!
FireWorks77, you have a point. However, the fault, as I see it is the fault of the station. It was their duty to point out that there are many of blind parents who care for their kids very well.
If you agree with me, I hope you will write the station and tell them so.
Bob
The producer of the documentary is going to be on the "in touch" radio show on radio 4 this evening. I hope that this will answer some of my questions and concerns. I'll let you know!
Fireworks I can understand your frustration as I too get really annoyed with those who will not try.
That was atrocious and it could be blamed purely on ignorance.
but the damage this despicable pair will do to the image of blind/vi people, is immense and irreparable.
Fireworks all the best in contacting In Touch, I've emailed on several occasions, and got nowhere, they don't like negative depictions of the blind/vi.
Yeah, i tried contacting In touch as well on a few ocasions and got nowhere. As far as this pathetic attempt at ratings, The producer of this should stress, or should have stressed, that this is not the norm.
I listened to it, someone had put it up on the internet and it just made me sick. You can bet if shit like that was going on here in the U.S we'd have social Services or child protection or whatever you want to call them all over our ass. Those kids are going to grow up hating blind people. The worst part is, that these people, Paul and Amanda, think it's absolutely fine.
The eldest girl was asked if she would rather not do the things she did, and she broke down and said she wished her mum and dad weren't blind. It was so sad to watch
Wow that is awful! and someone should intervene and sort them out. damn. I mean come on. that is pathetic! If they can't take care of themselves, then why on earth do they have children. and so many at that! It makes no sense and they are not setting a good example for their children or others. Plus, it makes us all look bad because we're in the same boat as far as most sighties are concerned. Waht the program should have done would have been to contrast that with a family with two blind parents who were managing fine. You know, give it a balanced perspective. but it's the media so forget it.
Holly Bear, where did you find the site to listen to it? Please give us a link.
Nem-
I too saw this horrid documentary! Wow! I can't believe they even showed it. It was horrible the way the family lived. Poor kids! There was one part where the narator said, Because they are blind, they can't do things most of us take for granted, like cooking! Gurhrhrhrhrhr. I wonder how they managed when there first two kids, the ones that are now taking care of every one else, were babies? Did they have someone come over and change and feed them? They shouldn't be allowed to have kids at all. I hope they get taken away. They don't mind using there kids like that at all. They want to have more too. James said he should write to channel 4 and have them come do a documentary on us to show people how it really is. lol. We are only partially sited though but it doesn't matter. People need to have a different and positive view on how VI and blind families work. I've changed probably 200 diapers now, we clean, cook, and take care of Hannah without any assistance what so ever. I just don't get those messed up people!
I'm done now. lol.
Lizzy
I'm not very good at html but I'll give it a shot. After you go to this page there will be a link call youngcarers.mp3
I don't know why but that damn thing jsut won't work, the link does but I've reviewed it over and over and I can't getthe link to say what i want. Shrugs. so jsut click it. lol
ummm? When I reviewed it there was a link that was just a bunch of numbers that was part of the url, and then I put that in at the bottom there and it turned what I said into a link? Alrighty then.
Also forgive the horrible typing.
Html worked fine Holly-bear. I am now downloading it.
Thanks. Won't say anything about the typing <lol>.
Bob
I listened to In Touch last night and was angered by the presenter who just would not recognise the plight of the children, the film maker had to raise the issue by asking why has asked what about the children..which is the whole point of this programme..I couldn't care less about those ignorant wastes of space masquerading as parents.
I didn't hear the intouch program last night, but I did hear the original "documentary" and agree that the emphasis was on the wrong thing--concern for the helpless parents.
What a crock.
Bob
heay all that is sick and I agree with liz and all the good points that have been take about. Erica.
I heard the in touch programme and want to make one point. The producer of the documentary said we weren't consentrating on the children which was what the show was meant to be about. But surely, our point is concern for those children because we know they don't have to live like that just because of the parents blindness. It was the parents making them live like that, because it is perfectly possible to bring up children when you are blind. I don't think anybody could have watched it and not felt sorrow and concern for there situation, especially as we no the parents could have done more if they had tried.
Fireworks I agree whole heartedly and I wonder why the children haven't called childline, surely this is the answer to their miserable existence.
The in touch show has a feature about this topic again tonight. The father and oldest girl are going to be interviewed.
I listened to the documentary from the link provided above, but I don't really know what to say. There are so many things wrong with the picture they painted, and the way those children are forced to live breaks my heart. And as has already been mentioned, the bit about how the parents can't do so many things sighted people take for granted really frustrates me, because the way it was said made it seem as if it's the norm for blind people, and it's not. There was also a bit that said the parents were fiercely independent and refused most of the help available to them, which makes it sound as if they do things for themselves instead of relying on others, which again is not true. I think it was something that needed to be shown, but it was done in the wrong way entirely.
Well said Chelsea.
All I can say is that I don't think the parents were independent at all. They seemed to be just plain lazy, and would rather have someone else do things for them than to do it themselves.
Bob
I didn't hear about this documentary until now, and quite frankly, I'm just shocked that parents would do that. To whoever started this message board, you are absolutely right in saying that the sighted people who watched this are going to think that all blind people are exactly like the couple described. What were those parents thinking, making their kids do all of the work? In my opinion, if parents are going to do that to their kids, why do they even have children? (not a parent myself, but still appalled)
This is a disgrace
I am downloading it now, and am going to listen to it. Don't we have enough to work through with out help from them showing such? Things like this make me so mad. Family and Children is so after people who do tae care of their children, and not people like that.
Hello again, I just listen to the yung carers show. I went strate to the web site, and made a conplant. I told them I believe that mother and father should be told how to cook and clean before having any kids. I mean I was a single mom for ten years, and went to school and worked. Give me a brake. If she has not been tought, then teach her and stop feeling sorry for her.
Whoever said, "This is a disgrace," I like you. Short, sweet, and to the point.
How do you download this documentary?
Where can I find the documentary that was the subject of this message board? I'd like to see it for myself.
There's a link near the top of this bord that has the documentery's link with it. All you have to do is go to the websight that will come up after you hit the link oddvicely and near the bottom there is a link that says yung carers, and you downlode it like you would something else. Though persenily I don't think it's worth your time as it will just piss you off.
I don't think the family's life was sooo horable as the documentery showed, it seemed to me like the host made every effert to show everything bad or sad about that family and never showed anything nice that ever happend. And yes I no the lives though's children lived should not have been asked of them, I really think that it's proibley not as bad as they portrayed. Pluss I could tel that something was eddeted because when the eldest girl Louize hit the yunger girl jenny she sed Oww before her sister even tuched her. Pluss alot of the comments the host made were like well I'm gonna make you and your family look as bad as I can.
Anyway. just had to get that out
I don't know what to say to this! we have to work hard to prove ourselves as it is, and now, we'll have to work even harder! this is stupid! that's all I can say to this!
I watched that documentary and listened to the in touch show on the radio last year. If the parents are expecting the older children to look after the younger ones, how did they look after the first one or two children in the first place? If they could do that, they can surely look after the other children.
I downloaded it and listened to it after reading this topic. First, it was the second daughter who tried to commit suicide; they were talking about her only being eight when she made the attempt. 2nd, the show seemed more concerned with "poor blind people" then the poor little ones, and that's infeuriating. Thirdly, that quote about "can't do things that the sighted take for granted..." is disgusting and I think some people need their heads examined. I had no problem with the segments on the sick mother, but I did with the rest. For those in the UK; is children being treated like this fairly widely excepted? It isn't here in the US. Oh, I know it goes on, but if it was widely known; IE a show filmed on a particular family, there is no doubt in my mind that they wouldn't be in that home long. I'm not saying being in foster care is much better for a child, but at least most people in the US wouldn't just stand by and watch it go on while everyone is screaming those poor blind parents...How fiercely indipendent they are...And an entire organization is setup for children who are forced to be in simular situations? I'm just curious. This is a side of things I personally have never seen. I guess I'm trying to understand from people who live in the UK if this type of thing is as widely acceptable as this show seems to be protraying...Different culture, many questions.
We are fucked. We. Are. So. Totally. Fucked. Blind parents have so much trouble convincing sighted parents that we will not drop, lose, neglect, injure, malnurish, abuse or otherwise ruen our children and now things will become that much worse. I can't stand programs like this. Just last night I was at my fiance's house when his family, all sighted as is he, were watching extreme make-over home addition. They were focusing on a family that had a blind boy in a wheelchair and it was a mess. They neglected to really tell the story of his parents or sibblings, only focusing on the poor disabled kid. They played up accomplishments of his that were virtually meaningless and run of the mill, things that had they been done by a sighted or able-bodied person would not have recieved any praise. For example he "marches" in marching band. No, he is pushed by someone, does not power or stear his own chair, while he plays an instrument in the band, which is something that thousands of normal highschool and college students do with no recognition or hyp. They also portrayed him as being a poor kid who had never been taught to cook because they had no adapted appliances, when his mother or any agency could have modified their existing appliances so that he could reach them and distinguish buttons and controls. This relates because it was so frustrating to see such a thing on mass media where thousands will accept it as gospil. It was so infuriating to sit there and watch his family lap it all up. I got so upset I started ranting and yelling at the tv, even calling the boy on tv a stupid twat, language I would never have dreamed of using in front of his family. I was that upset. If they had been watching this doccumentary on the blind parents I don't know what I would have done; probably smashed their big screen tv in a fit of uncontrolable rage. I'd like to send these parents a five hundred pound shipment of condoms and birth-control pills with a note telling them to stop having children or else I'd send the men in the white coats next to either lock them up in a psych ward or to get them a vasectemy and a tubal ligation. God, this is so upseting.
I got the audio file of this and was listening to it in work whilst writing up some patient records. I can totally relate to the use of foul language. Because I had headphones on, I didn't realise what I was doing until a colleague asked me why I was grinding my teeth. It made me extremely angry, not least because my blind mother had no trouble with me! I can't express the fury I experienced during this programme. I actually emailed a lot of friends, asking them if they knew the family in question, as I had more than a mind to go and visit them.
What are the welfare doing in this country? How do they let that kind of thing go on and not intervene!
People like that should be shot, plain and simple. And those who created this documentary really need to examine their own mental status. I haven't listened to this yet, but how on Earth can they honestly feel sorry for those parents? I think that someone should go to
http://www.thepetitionsite.com
or a similar site and create a petition to send to Channel 4 on behalf of blind people as well as sensible sighted people who refuse to tollerate such rubbish. I further think that the major blind organisations in the UK and the U.S.A. should be informed of this so that maybe, something good can come of it. Perhaps, a positive documentary could be created that shows both sides of the story of blind parents with sighted children. For the record, I don't have blind parents, but if I ever do have I will be one. I may not be the most independent person in the book right now, but you'd better believe that I'd change my ways if I had a child! Also, I salute the person who commented on the birth control.
My blind mother raised me on her own for the most part and we have a blind friend who raised two sighted children. My father is great, had visitation when I was a minor, I still see him often and he is a great father, he is sighted, btw, but it is my mother who did ninety percent of the work. Our friend is totally blind and has successfully raised two great sighted girls with her sighted husband's help. They share the responsibility fifty fifty as good parenting teams should do. If someone creates that petition I would like to know and will get a lot of people to sign it. I'm interested that I heard from another blind child of a blind parent like my self. Ninety-nine percent of the blind people I know had sighted parents. I'd be curious to compare experiences at some point.
I had to call CPS on an ex-friend because of child abuse. Won't mention any details, but I'm sure social services in the Southern Region of California above LA will now think that ALL blind parents slap and shake qeir children. Ugh. Makes me sick.
That is awful. It must be so frustrating for you to realize that what you are doing for the good of the children might make it harder for other, good, blind parents in that area in future. Good for you though. I'm sure you made a huge difference in their lives by doing what you did.
Hugs to you. That was a wonderful thing that you did and those children will hopefully have happier and better lives because of you and your actions.
Thanks. I'm not really looking to be the hero, but I am looking out for the best interest of children who have no voice in this world where we often fine and jail people who abuse their animals, but turn our heads and ignore those who abuse their children. I feel that parents-- regardless of how much sight they have-- have a huge responsibility of taking care of their children. Some can own up to it, and some cannot, I guess. Since having my own child, it is both disturbing and unfathomable to me how anyone could do what people do to their children. I couldn't even imagine swatting his hand for getting in to something; although once he starts moving around, I'm sure I will have to resort to something. TTFN.
You're right. Did you know that the first ever case of child abuse that came to court had to be tried as an animal abuse case because there was no standard for trying child abuse cases? You are a hero though. Anyone who does something like that to better the lives of children is a hero.
No one seems to have mentioned that the mother in this case seems to be mentally... challenged? Or whatever the right term is for that. Shouldn't that be addressed, too, rather than just blaming the parents for being such rotten parents?
I can't decide about the kids' father, though. He strikes me as just intentionally oblivious.
If she is retarded (used in the proper sense) enough to not be able to take care of children, why was she allowed to have them in the first place? that should be against the law.
Hmm, she didn't strike me as mentally challenged; just maybe a bit uneasy/shy with the camera or whatever, but that's food for thought. I never looked at it that way...That she could be I mean, but that's no excuse. I have a cousin who is mentally challenged, and do to the fact she'd never be able to properly take care of children, she's been proven unfit (incompitent), and she is made to stay on contraceptive methods; just in case sex occurs. I knew someone else who was less mentally challenged, had a child (a wonderful little boy), and did fairly well with him. However, she also had her mother as primary care giver do to her own problems. She set that up willingly do to her own awareness of the problems she experienced. I've known of many other cases; with a wide range of variance, and I still say mental challenges are no excuse. It altimatly has to come down to what is best for the child(children). If anyone is wondering; I know about so many situations do to the fact my mother is a social worker who works soully with the mentally and physically challenged. She's been doing this for something like 27 years, and I've seen a lot of different things do to that. *smile*
I agree that if this mother is mentally ill/disabled, she should have been sterilized or put on some type of birth control. The ex-friend I called CPs on obviously had some type of schizophrenia, though she'd never been to a psychiatrist. Some sighted people could easily say the same thing of us visually impaired mothers, and those with other physical disabilites- that we shouldn't have kids. I am so proud of the job my husband and I are doing with our son, and it just amazes me that some women can just keep having kids and take motherhood for granted.
Agreed whole heartedly about some women (though I don't personally consider them women). In my opinion the person should be proven unfit to be a parent before any action is taken. IE, I once did day care for a mother of 3 and got paid by the state; or was suppose to be. However, they didn't want to pay me do to the fact I'm completely blind. I was able to fight them and when because (1) I've had day care experience; under two lisenced providers who wrote references, ETC. (2) I've never had a serious accident with a child in my care. So, they had no choice but to pay and grin and bare it. They didn't like it, but given that they couldn't prove me unfit they couldn't do a damn thing about it. So, it goes back to proving someone unfit. And, no, I don't want to even attempt to clarify those lines because I'm not sure I could explain myself adiquatly...However, if you mistreat a child IMO that's unfit. Hope that makes since.
does any one know how I could watch this epesode now days? I tried the link and it didn't work.
I had the same issue.
I was also curious to watch this, but can't find a streaming link to it or any legal way of obtaining it. I did hear it a long time ago, and it pissed me off, but it's part of society, as horrid as it is.
I downloaded the sound file, but have no clue how to upload it to stream.
FM
I'd like to watch this as well, if some one who has it could reupload it to sendspace or mediafire, that would be great.
Do you need an account on Sendspace to upload?
FM
probably, and I don't have any idea if there's one of those dreaded captias to get by ...
No you do not. Mediafire you do though.
You can also watch the documentary on www.youtube.com and type in a search for "Aged 12 and Looking After the Family”. It was split into 4 or so different parts.
Ah, so I don't need to upload then, unless any of you can't get on with youtube. Do let me know.
FM
any updates on the family? This topic was originally started ... um ... at least a year ago.
Nothing else has been shown over here. I do hops social services got involved though.
The one that you have FM, is audio described?
I don't know why its not working let see what I did wrong then I will try again.
I don't know hwy it would not work the other way I tryed to put it up.
Part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qMbbic9XpU
Part tow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX83VhGbCGc
Part three,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ1U-jfrA6w
Part four,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osbv4yNkt7A
Part five,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-8vMXE2xPE
Part six,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK9ZxHm7LLE
I got to part 2, then quit watching it.
The mom seams to have a slight mintal condition aswell to her blindness. She acts nervice anytime she is asked a question about why she does not do something and why she has her child do it for her instead. They over upsest on going to a grave once a month for four years to a child that died before birth. In part six the parents clames that the doctor told them to go ahead adn try for a seventh child after they had found that the one the mother was pregnet with had missed caridged. The fauther seams to live in his own fantacy world and does not believe in anything other then love. He claims his fauther used him as a punching bag from baby hood. The oldest child seams emotionless during most or all of the show. The second to oldest is pritty much crying the hole time. The second to oldest says she tryed to kill herself because kids at school bullied her because of having blind parents.
At the beginning of the show, the coment was made that the parents were blind, and disabled. Meaning they have some kind of a mintal condition as I took it after watching a bit of it. Yes they did say that they could not cook and drive because of them being blind. However that is only half way true. It is minchened that the mom does some, work. londry. It did not say that the kids never got changed while the older two were at school. It was said that the parents do help change, but had problems doing it well every time. Social services come's in their home two hours a week to clean.
I do say that the two older kids have more responsability on them than they should. The parents wants a totle of eight kids when they are done.
And why do they want those eight? Well, the dad makes it very clear. It's so that the eight of them can look after the parents. Blind people like this disgust me. And no, I don't believe either of them have a mental condition.
I'm sorry, the one I have isn't sudio described either, but I found that I didn't need it.
That's alright, I found them on youtube.
i have some sight and watched this entire documentary and made notes on all the little things i wanted to point out. then decided it wasn't really worth it. i don't think you really miss much but hell i could have missed things too. there was the one point where the little boy cut his lip and the older daughter took care of him. then right after that you here one of the kids crying. he had fallen down. and the mother just kind of half heartedly bends over to ask if he is ok and then kind of backs away like she doesn't know what to do.
i do feel that there is more than just blindness going on here. that or the parents were just severely sheltered.
someone needs to step in and do something. the parents may mean well but they aren't doing their jobs as parents. it says right at the beginning that they are fiercely independent, but in reality, they aren't at all.
i feel they could do more. i've changed my daughter's diaper in the middle of the nite without the lights on and i'm totally night blind. so it would be with less sight than the mother has. and i do it just fine.
i think that a lot of the problem is that these parents don't know how to do things like cook and change diapers and parenting skills. but instead of being taught, they are claiming they are independent and then having the girls do it for them. i really think if someone were to step in and teach the mom to cook, even if it were simple things, she could do it.
both the parents neeed to open their eyes and realize what they are doing to their daughters, though. i don't understand why social services didn't step in when the daughter tried to commit suicide. that is just messed up.
the fact the 3 youngest sit in the same soiled diaper for at least 7 hours while the girls are at school, is just not healthy or acceptable at all. can you imagine the diaper rashes those poor kids must have. a diaper isn't freaking rocket science. it really isn't. there's one point that the daughter is saying how she hates changing the diapers and the dad is having a beer. again, messed up.
you don't have children to have slaves. there are so many parents in this world that have kids for the wrong reason and it pisses me off. it is a parent's job to give their kids all that they can. to make sure they are loved, nurtured, cared for, and happy. if you can't or don't want to do it, then don't become a parent.
when the oldest daughter started talking about how the neighbor girl had hung herself, it sickened me that she hadn't been talked to about that at all. if my daughter had found out something like that. it wouldn't take me more than a heartbeat to sit with her and discuss it and see how she was handling it. that is not something a child should know about without getting some minor counseling, even just from the paretns.
the dad's hole abuse thing disgusted me. if you think about it, he is abusing his girls now. he may love them, but he needs to do a much better job showing them.
and for fuck's sake let the kids be kids. they grow up so fast. it isn't fair nor right to take their childhood from them.
oh there were many other points i wanted to make, but i can't remember them now.
I agree with you above me
Sorry, but the videos have been removed. I didn't think it was against any copyright laws, since the poster had clearly given credit to the people producing it. Damn.
not the ones that i have posted, I will post them agin after this one.
Its on post 63 but here they are again,
Part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qMbbic9XpU
Part tow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX83VhGbCGc
Part three,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ1U-jfrA6w
Part four,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osbv4yNkt7A
Part five,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-8vMXE2xPE
Part six,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK9ZxHm7LLE